The truth about pool cues ....

[William Lee]

There was once a restaurant that served wonderful coffee at a fair price.
However, the manager being a part time used cue salesman and knowing that a
lot of his customers were well heeled and always looking for something
special to spend their excess money on came up with a special coffee just
for them. For the average dinner he offered his coffee for $1 but for the
elite he offered a $75 special coffee. It was served on silver tray in a
silver pot with the finest bone china cups and saucers. The manager knew
that the coffee was the same but the well heeled customers thought
otherwise. The educated ones could tell you how the silver pot reacted with
the coffee on a molecular level giving that fine quality taste. Everyone
that purchased it thought it was far superior to the common coffee served to
the masses. Who among them would admit to drinking $1 coffee but paying $75
for it. Yes .... there had to be a difference as the price of quality don't
lie.

The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot with
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they were
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.

The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.

William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

[John Barton]

You must not be a coffee drinker :-)) Otherwise you would have picked out
something else to use for your metaphor. Coffee drinkers get a positive
look of ecstasy when they taste gourmet coffee.

As for cues. There certainly is a difference in quality, hit and longevity
between them. It isn't all marketing because if it were then you wouldn't
be able to sell a cue for more than $39.95. I guarantee you that Cuetec has
spent more marketing dollars than all of the ACA members combined.

Would you say that a $12 cue from China is the equivalent of one of your
cues? I wouldn't. If you think all cues are the same then why should
anyone purchase your cues?

The analogy is flawed. Yes, some people are paying high prices for cues
with not much in them (at least on a visual level). They are paying for the
name and the track record that goes with it. They are paying for the
experience and the prestige of owning something made by a recognized artist.

The restauranteur may get away with selling the $75 coffee for a while but
eventually people will wise up to the fact that it is really $1 coffee and
move on. The guy who will really succeed at this is the one who provides
gourmet coffee for $4 a cup. Oh wait there already is someone like that,
Starbucks.

The truth about pool cues is this. It's a stick made to hit a ball and
engineered to make it easy to make the ball do a wide range of things. Like
all things people use the stick differently and get different results.
Therefore the stick is modified slightly to appeal to a wide range of
people. Some sticks are plain, some are decorated, some are well made and
some are not. Some people collect them and most do not. Some people know
how to use them well and most do not. Life is about marrying the right
person to right stick so they can stick it to someone else with a stick. We
do too much arguing about sticks and not enough playing with them, although
some people seem to play with theirs a lot more than others.

John

Post by William Lee
There was once a restaurant that served wonderful coffee at a fair price.
However, the manager being a part time used cue salesman and knowing that a
lot of his customers were well heeled and always looking for something
special to spend their excess money on came up with a special coffee just
for them. For the average dinner he offered his coffee for $1 but for the
elite he offered a $75 special coffee. It was served on silver tray in a
silver pot with the finest bone china cups and saucers. The manager knew
that the coffee was the same but the well heeled customers thought
otherwise. The educated ones could tell you how the silver pot reacted with
the coffee on a molecular level giving that fine quality taste. Everyone
that purchased it thought it was far superior to the common coffee served to
the masses. Who among them would admit to drinking $1 coffee but paying $75
for it. Yes .... there had to be a difference as the price of quality don't
lie.
The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot with
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they were
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.
The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.
William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

[William Lee]

Post by John Barton
You must not be a coffee drinker :-)) Otherwise you would have picked out
something else to use for your metaphor. Coffee drinkers get a positive
look of ecstasy when they taste gourmet coffee.
As for cues. There certainly is a difference in quality, hit and longevity
between them. It isn't all marketing because if it were then you wouldn't
be able to sell a cue for more than $39.95. I guarantee you that Cuetec has
spent more marketing dollars than all of the ACA members combined.
Would you say that a $12 cue from China is the equivalent of one of your
cues? I wouldn't. If you think all cues are the same then why should
anyone purchase your cues?
The analogy is flawed.

I dont know if it is so flawed.
I drink Kona coffee that costs $23 per pound.
Some people will pay up to $50 per pound for Kona at the Mall and dont even
know that some of that is only 10% Kona coffee beans.
I like to think of my cues as the $23 Kona and the China cues as the
supermarket stuff.
Between my cues and the china cues is the Starbucks stuff .... better than
most but not as good the real thing fresh roasted and ground just before
brewing to my preferences.

And BTW ... the $75 coffee sells very well and it has for years.
People that have a lot of money are not as frugel as you would think.

William Lee

[Smorgass Bored]

=A0=A0
author:***@aol.com=A0
Why would I need him to go first, courage???? for what I will give you
my opinion, if any one who makes my list isn't happy thats not my
problem . I can make 2 lists unfortunately my list of the 5 worst
cuemakers would be filled with people who I find to be either Assholes
or just bad businessmen, or both. I would have a hard time saying who
makes bad cues since I wouldn't buy nore play with a piece of shit.
Drum role
Bludworth (the old guy not the kid) He's a nice guy though, funny, just
has a problem with the concept of a str8 cue.
Ted Harris, another guy I know nice enough, just can't make a cue.
Barry Szambodi, I actually like some of his cues(looks) but I didn't
like the hit, and all the people I know who knew his father said this
guy is just exploiting his name, he never wanted to make cues when his
dad was alive. (all second hand I didn't know the man)
PFD , A former good friend, but I had many problems with a cue, and he
didn't want to stand behind it, also on the fact that he is a very poor
businessman. Just ask Gary, another poster.Cues are way over priced.
Richard Black, Also someone I have delt with, and I know he reads this ,
I had a problem with a cue and aproached him about it and he said
So.....also I have seen some bad inlay work from him in the past.
all this being said the diffrence between giving an opinion about who
you like is diferent because you can't piss someone off by putting a
name on a best of list.You can on the other hand make enemies by telling
what you don't like and who you don't like.I also only included people
that I have dealt with, I am positive there are 20 cue makers who are
worse then the 5 I listed but I can only go by my experiance. I have had
bad experiances with the 5 I listed . Thats not to say people don't love
the work they do.Mr Black and Mr Drexler both make some great lookin
cues, But In my dealings with them and the work they do I was not happy.
JIM <--Just an opinion


(*<~ I had a minute to kill... imo

Doug
~>*(((>< Big fish eat Little fish ><)))*<~

=

[Shawn Armstrong]

This is the biggest load of self serving bullshit you've ever posted on this
newsgroup.

Yeah, your cues are the same as Thomas Wayne, Jerry McWorter, or Bill
Stroud. How foolish of us not to see through their marketing hype and
realize the cuemaking genius of William Lee.

Did Thomas, Jerry and Bill learn to make cues from the books and videos,
too? If so, the coffee analogy might be close. Here's the difference,
schmuck. The masters learned how to make a great hitting cue with some
preconceived notion as to how a great cue should play. They didn't take the
Hightower template and make a few adjustments.

You yourself have stolen other cuemaker's ingenuity in the making of your
own cues. You offer a "Southwest" taper on some of your shafts. Sounds
like you're trying to sneak some of that expensive coffee into your cheapass
$1 mug.

Shawn Armstrong

Post by William Lee
There was once a restaurant that served wonderful coffee at a fair price.
However, the manager being a part time used cue salesman and knowing that a
lot of his customers were well heeled and always looking for something
special to spend their excess money on came up with a special coffee just
for them. For the average dinner he offered his coffee for $1 but for the
elite he offered a $75 special coffee. It was served on silver tray in a
silver pot with the finest bone china cups and saucers. The manager knew
that the coffee was the same but the well heeled customers thought
otherwise. The educated ones could tell you how the silver pot reacted with
the coffee on a molecular level giving that fine quality taste. Everyone
that purchased it thought it was far superior to the common coffee served to
the masses. Who among them would admit to drinking $1 coffee but paying $75
for it. Yes .... there had to be a difference as the price of quality don't
lie.
The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot with
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they were
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.
The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.
William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

[William Lee]

"Shawn Armstrong" <***@no.cogeco.ca> wrote

Damm .. reset the bit bucket for one day and this is what happens.
OK Shawn .. lets see if you have grown up any yet and can carry on a
conversation without throwing a tantrum.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
This is the biggest load of self serving bullshit you've ever posted on this
newsgroup.

No .. I have posted bigger loads of bulshit before.
However, I would ask you to explain how it is self serving since I seldom
offer any of my cues for sale here.
Cant you see this post was a bit of a troll and was intended to invoke
hostile responses from people like yourself?

Post by Shawn Armstrong
Yeah, your cues are the same as Thomas Wayne, Jerry McWorter, or Bill
Stroud. How foolish of us not to see through their marketing hype and
realize the cuemaking genius of William Lee.

Thank you for the complement.
But I dont really think I am up to their level yet.
Close .. give me another year.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
Did Thomas, Jerry and Bill learn to make cues from the books and videos,

too?

I dont know.
I never asked them how they learned.
And I am to busy learning myself to bother them with ilrelivant questions
like that.
Who really cares how they learned ... they did and the proof is in each cue
they make.

Most people can not read a book on how to become a millionare and then go
out and become one.
However, dont think something is impossable just because you are one of the
ones that cant do it.
Dont project your limitations onto other people.
There are always a few that can do it and will prove you wrong everytime.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
If so, the coffee analogy might be close. Here's the difference,
schmuck.

The name is Willee, Please.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
The masters learned how to make a great hitting cue with some
preconceived notion as to how a great cue should play.

Did they all learn it the same way?
From the same teachers?
From the same books and videos?
Didnt any of them learn it on their own?

Post by Shawn Armstrong
They didn't take the Hightower template and make a few adjustments.

You make it sound so simple.
I bet anyone of them could have.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
You yourself have stolen other cuemaker's ingenuity in the making of your
own cues. You offer a "Southwest" taper on some of your shafts. Sounds
like you're trying to sneak some of that expensive coffee into your cheapass
$1 mug.

I will have you know my mug is neither cheap or shaped like an ass.
Dont you use a lot of the shapes and methods and materials that other
cuemakers use?
I would hardly call all that stealing.
One of the things I most wanted to do was make my cues different from other
cuemakers cues.
I have acomplished that goal to some extent but you can only change just so
much to a piece of wood with a leather tip on it.
In the end It still needs to look and play like a pool cue.

I offer a South West taper profile because some people like that taper.
Would It make you feel better if I called it the Willee Wonder taper?
Some people hate it and prefer the more Meucci like profile I developed.
Some people even hate that one.
I carry a cue with four shafts each profiled differently but with the same
joint and tip diameter so people can actually feel which profile they
prefer.
That makes for a much happer customer.
I also use the South West profile because I can.
There is no law against it and I doubt that South West even gives a shit
about it.
I can duplicate any shaft taper a coustomer could possably want to get his
cue to play the way he wants it to.
After all, it dont matter what I want.
It is His cue and he gets it the way He wants it.
I have all the equipment and tools I need to do just about anything someone
would want done to a cue.
Books and videos have served me well in learning the cuemaking craft and so
has talking with other cuemakers.
I have even learned things from you.
Now ... I am like a ship sailing uncharted waters.
I am experimenting a lot and learning even more.
However, I will still make a cue the way the customer wants it to the best
of my abilitys.
Which, if I may be allowed to say so, is getting right up there.

If you really are wanting to know just how good my cues have become just ask
someone that owns one.
Or buy one yourself.
Or if you want we could even make each other a cue and trade.
I wouldnt mind owning a Shawn ... would you like a WilleeCue?

William Lee

[Shawn Armstrong]

Post by William Lee
If you really are wanting to know just how good my cues have become just ask
someone that owns one.
Or buy one yourself.
Or if you want we could even make each other a cue and trade.
I wouldnt mind owning a Shawn ... would you like a WilleeCue?
William Lee

William,

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll pass on the WilleeCue. Also, if you
make a good cue, word will spread, so I won't have to ask anyone about the
quality. I personally don't like you, so I'm sure that wouldn't transfer
well to the cue that I bought or traded with you. Your complete lack of
respect for pretty much everything surrounding cuemaking bothers me like a
thorn in my side.

If you want a "Shawn", try to find one on the used market. I have decided
to give up cuemaking, as there are more important things in my life.
Besides, since your expose on cuemaking secrets, business has dried up. I
have a 6 month old son who takes up a lot of my time lately. Besides, I
have always been pretty good at repairs, and that alone keeps me busy enough
with a wife, child, and a career that doesn't revolve around the billiard
industry. I make the odd cue here and there when I have time, now, which is
not very often. Besides, you can make a cue that hits just like mine
anyways (it will be a lot easier than copying the Cog, I might add), so why
don't you make yourself your own "Shawn"?

Shawn Armstrong

[William Lee]

Post by Shawn Armstrong

Post by William Lee
If you really are wanting to know just how good my cues have become just

ask

Post by William Lee
someone that owns one.
Or buy one yourself.
Or if you want we could even make each other a cue and trade.
I wouldnt mind owning a Shawn ... would you like a WilleeCue?
William Lee

William,
Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll pass on the WilleeCue. Also, if you
make a good cue, word will spread, so I won't have to ask anyone about the
quality. I personally don't like you, so I'm sure that wouldn't transfer
well to the cue that I bought or traded with you. Your complete lack of
respect for pretty much everything surrounding cuemaking bothers me like a
thorn in my side.

Sorry you feel that way, Shawn, but under the circumstances I can understand
that.
I think we got off to a bad start and it never got any better.
However, I also think you completely misunderstand what I am about and how I
feel toward cuemaking.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
If you want a "Shawn", try to find one on the used market. I have decided
to give up cuemaking, as there are more important things in my life.

For now, perhaps.
I can see the passion you have for cuemaking and you wont stay away for
good.
Later on when you have more time and the family demands are not as great the
need to create will return just as strong as it ever was.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
Besides, since your expose on cuemaking secrets, business has dried up.

LOL say it isnt so.
I never set out to be another popular yes man on the NG.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
I have a 6 month old son who takes up a lot of my time lately.

And that is as it should be.
Cuemaking will be there waiting for you but your son will grow up way to
fast.
You don't want to be looking back regretting the things you could have done
with him.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
Besides, I
have always been pretty good at repairs, and that alone keeps me busy enough
with a wife, child, and a career that doesn't revolve around the billiard
industry. I make the odd cue here and there when I have time, now, which is
not very often. Besides, you can make a cue that hits just like mine
anyways (it will be a lot easier than copying the Cog, I might add), so why
don't you make yourself your own "Shawn"?

Well, in all honesty, Shawn, I don't think that is entirely true.
I think I can make one that hits better <g>
But that aside ... There is more to things than just their intrinsic value.

William Lee

[Edwin Reyes]

Post by William Lee
The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot

with

Post by William Lee
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they were
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.

Same-O same-O is right! In this craft they're called "hacks".

Post by William Lee
The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.
William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

This really hurts, Willee. I've always respected you because of your
demonstrated enthusiasm for the craft and being someone that shares
the same interest, cuecrafting. All the other things you get into,
here in RSB, I just laugh at. It hurts me to see that you have
reached a deadend in enthusiasm and creativity. You've lost the
spark.

Edwin Reyes<--your pens look great, Willee!
***@yahBADABADoo.com

[William Lee]

Post by Edwin Reyes

Post by William Lee
The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot

with

Post by William Lee
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they were
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.

Same-O same-O is right! In this craft they're called "hacks".

Post by William Lee
The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.
William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

This really hurts, Willee. I've always respected you because of your
demonstrated enthusiasm for the craft and being someone that shares
the same interest, cuecrafting. All the other things you get into,
here in RSB, I just laugh at. It hurts me to see that you have
reached a deadend in enthusiasm and creativity. You've lost the
spark.
Edwin Reyes<--your pens look great, Willee!

Oh Edwin, don't go and do anything drastic, the spark is alive and well.

Just for grins lets take all the variables out of the equation.
Lets leave our emotions out of it and think about this.
Lets say for some reason all the cuemakers in the world were to make a
simple cue from the same material.
Lets use Acrylic because one piece is very much like another in looks and
characteristics.
The cue will be simple with no inlays, same joint pin, simple fiber rings,
59" long, joint diameter .84 butt cap diameter 1.27" straight taper, no
wrap, Shaft will be a straight conical taper , LBM ferrule and Triangle tip
of 13mm. In other words the same cue made from the same materials and
constructed the same way.

If every cuemaker made this cue which one would play the best?
Do you really think there would be a difference in the way they played?
Chances are that they all would play very much the same.

How much do you think the one from Taiwan would cost verses the one made by
Richard Black or Paul Drexler.
Do you think the one I made would be considered to be worth as much as the
one made by Barry Szamboti?
If it were basically the same cue made from the same materials in the same
way ... what would make one worth more than the other?

See ... in the end it is marketing that sets the value of a cue.

William Lee

[John Barton]

Post by William Lee
Just for grins lets take all the variables out of the equation.
Lets leave our emotions out of it and think about this.
Lets say for some reason all the cuemakers in the world were to make a
simple cue from the same material.
Lets use Acrylic because one piece is very much like another in looks and
characteristics.
The cue will be simple with no inlays, same joint pin, simple fiber rings,
59" long, joint diameter .84 butt cap diameter 1.27" straight taper, no
wrap, Shaft will be a straight conical taper , LBM ferrule and Triangle tip
of 13mm. In other words the same cue made from the same materials and
constructed the same way.
If every cuemaker made this cue which one would play the best?
Do you really think there would be a difference in the way they played?
Chances are that they all would play very much the same.
How much do you think the one from Taiwan would cost verses the one made by
Richard Black or Paul Drexler.
Do you think the one I made would be considered to be worth as much as the
one made by Barry Szamboti?
If it were basically the same cue made from the same materials in the same
way ... what would make one worth more than the other?
See ... in the end it is marketing that sets the value of a cue.
William Lee

It would be reputation. You cannot take the variables out of the equation
because they exist. If big name cuemaker Rudy Cuemaster were to build a cue
without his signature and put a "made in China" sticker on it then the cue
would be worth a fraction of what it would be worth otherwise. Conversely,
if the Chinese cue factory MultiThousand Cues Inc. were to produce a
prototype exactly to Rudy Cuemaster's specs and he put his signature on it
then it would command far more than it would be worth otherwise.

Sure, you can use advertising and marketing to make something more valuable
than it is. In the end however it comes down to performance and reputation.
People will buy and pay the asking price for something advertised as good
because people are inately trusting. If the product is not good then they
will quickly make sure everyone knows about it.

In your hypothetical the answer is that the Richard Black cue will play
better. Why, because you are using Richard Black's reputation to sell it
and therefore it must be better. In reality both might play exactly the
same but only one of them is made by Richard Black and therefore it is worth
more and will command more.

John

[Sandy Lyle]

Post by William Lee
There was once a restaurant that served wonderful coffee at a fair price.
However, the manager being a part time used cue salesman and knowing that a
lot of his customers were well heeled and always looking for something
special to spend their excess money on came up with a special coffee just
for them. For the average dinner he offered his coffee for $1 but for the
elite he offered a $75 special coffee. It was served on silver tray in a
silver pot with the finest bone china cups and saucers. The manager knew
that the coffee was the same but the well heeled customers thought
otherwise. The educated ones could tell you how the silver pot reacted with
the coffee on a molecular level giving that fine quality taste. Everyone
that purchased it thought it was far superior to the common coffee served to
the masses. Who among them would admit to drinking $1 coffee but paying $75
for it. Yes .... there had to be a difference as the price of quality don't
lie.
The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot with
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they were
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.
The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.
William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

Mr. Lee, we have this in pool, it is called custome cues, it is called
a bludworth, an $800 house cue with a few worthless enlays and a shaft
and ferrule that deflects like a mother and does not play. There is a
sucker born, every minute.

[William Lee]

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
There was once a restaurant that served wonderful coffee at a fair price.
However, the manager being a part time used cue salesman and knowing that a
lot of his customers were well heeled and always looking for something
special to spend their excess money on came up with a special coffee just
for them. For the average dinner he offered his coffee for $1 but for the
elite he offered a $75 special coffee. It was served on silver tray in a
silver pot with the finest bone china cups and saucers. The manager knew
that the coffee was the same but the well heeled customers thought
otherwise. The educated ones could tell you how the silver pot reacted with
the coffee on a molecular level giving that fine quality taste. Everyone
that purchased it thought it was far superior to the common coffee served to
the masses. Who among them would admit to drinking $1 coffee but paying $75
for it. Yes .... there had to be a difference as the price of quality don't
lie.
The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot with
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they were
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.
The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.
William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

Mr. Lee, we have this in pool, it is called custome cues, it is called
a bludworth, an $800 house cue with a few worthless enlays and a shaft
and ferrule that deflects like a mother and does not play. There is a
sucker born, every minute.

What .. you actualy agree with me?
I must be doing something wrong here.
LOL

William Lee

[John Barton]

Having Fast Larry agree with you is like having Hitler as your best friend.
This guy makes Jimbo look like a choir boy and that ain't easy.

John

Post by William Lee

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
There was once a restaurant that served wonderful coffee at a fair

price.

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
However, the manager being a part time used cue salesman and knowing

that a

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
lot of his customers were well heeled and always looking for something
special to spend their excess money on came up with a special coffee

just

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
for them. For the average dinner he offered his coffee for $1 but for

the

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
elite he offered a $75 special coffee. It was served on silver tray in a
silver pot with the finest bone china cups and saucers. The manager

knew

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
that the coffee was the same but the well heeled customers thought
otherwise. The educated ones could tell you how the silver pot reacted

with

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
the coffee on a molecular level giving that fine quality taste. Everyone
that purchased it thought it was far superior to the common coffee

served to

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
the masses. Who among them would admit to drinking $1 coffee but

paying

Post by William Lee
$75

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
for it. Yes .... there had to be a difference as the price of quality

don't

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
lie.
The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot

with

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they

were

Post by Sandy Lyle

Post by William Lee
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.
The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.
William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

Mr. Lee, we have this in pool, it is called custome cues, it is called
a bludworth, an $800 house cue with a few worthless enlays and a shaft
and ferrule that deflects like a mother and does not play. There is a
sucker born, every minute.

What .. you actualy agree with me?
I must be doing something wrong here.
LOL
William Lee

[Edwin Reyes]

Post by William Lee
There was once a restaurant that served wonderful coffee at a fair price.
However, the manager being a part time used cue salesman and knowing that a
lot of his customers were well heeled and always looking for something
special to spend their excess money on came up with a special coffee just
for them. For the average dinner he offered his coffee for $1 but for the
elite he offered a $75 special coffee. It was served on silver tray in a
silver pot with the finest bone china cups and saucers. The manager knew
that the coffee was the same but the well heeled customers thought
otherwise. The educated ones could tell you how the silver pot reacted with
the coffee on a molecular level giving that fine quality taste. Everyone
that purchased it thought it was far superior to the common coffee served to
the masses. Who among them would admit to drinking $1 coffee but paying $75
for it. Yes .... there had to be a difference as the price of quality don't
lie.
The fact was ... it was the same coffee just served up in a silver pot with
a lot of marketing mumbo jumbo to make the rich customers think they were
getting something special for the high price.
And they were.
The moral of this story is,
The same can be said about pool cues.
William Lee < .... makes the $1 coffee every morning.

Are you trying to make people believe that it's just that simple? That
the presence of what can readily be seen is what causes the
difference?

This just leads me to believe that the difference is even narrower
between what you brew and what some overseas production outfits brew.
Just brew the beans that come.

I think you're hurting yourself and possibly some other $ coffee
makers more than...

Edwin Reyes<thinks that Willee should learn to respect himself more.

[William Lee]

Post by Edwin Reyes
Are you trying to make people believe that it's just that simple? That
the presence of what can readily be seen is what causes the
difference?

Well .. in the example about coffee ...yes.
It is a true story.

Post by Edwin Reyes
This just leads me to believe that the difference is even narrower
between what you brew and what some overseas production outfits brew.
Just brew the beans that come.

And you dont even want to taste for yourself?

Post by Edwin Reyes
I think you're hurting yourself and possibly some other $ coffee
makers more than...

I really don't think so.
In the whole scheme of things Willee plays a very insignificant part.

Post by Edwin Reyes
Edwin Reyes<thinks that Willee should learn to respect himself more.

More than you know, Edwin, more than you know.

Actually, Edwin, I am trying to get people to think about something On
Topic.
That is all. (well ... perhaps stir up the hot heads a little too)

Just think about it for a while and if you disagree that that story does not
apply to pool cues then tell me in a logical and calm way why you think it
does not.
Dont you think marketing and image plays a biger role in sales than actual
quality?
Break it down and take it apart.
Lets all learn something new from it.

William Lee

[Edwin Reyes]

"William Lee" <***@stx.rr.com> wrote in message news:<JqrDc.14893$***@fe2.texas.rr.com>...
(well ... perhaps stir up the hot heads a little too)

:-)

Post by William Lee
Just think about it for a while and if you disagree that that story does not
apply to pool cues then tell me in a logical and calm way why you think it
does not.
Dont you think marketing and image plays a biger role in sales than actual
quality?
Break it down and take it apart.
Lets all learn something new from it.
William Lee

Nothing new, every product that requires recognition and patronage by
the majority of the target market benefits from effective marketing
approach. Image=name recognition and better name recognition=higher
chances for desirability or getting bought because the person in the
market for such product recalls the name from an ad.

Not everybody is affected by it as I know quite a number of people,
here and in other countries, that recognizes quality. Allow me to use
myself as an example. Mitsubishi makes an SUV available here in the
Philippines and it's called "Pajero". Although I know that it is
basically the same thing, I still opted to purchase the model that was
made for the US market, the Montero. Why? Because of the higher
standards required to sell and be competitive in the US market. Same
SUV but better quality.

Edwin Reyes<-- Willee, you're such a troublemaker LOL

[Fred Agnir]

Post by William Lee
Dont you think marketing and image plays a biger role in sales than actual
quality?

Absolutely not. The guys who have buiilt the biggest reputation did so
through quality work that stood the test of time. The word of mouth
advertisement was based on quality and performance and nothing else.
Marketing? Where do you see marketing for custom cues? The cost of their
cues is due to economics. The price is what their particular cues can be
sold for based on the demand and how many they can make.

IMO, the coffee analogy wasn't great, but it was alright. People go to
Starbucks for several reasons. There is more to offer,and they do it well.
Their coffee is mostly very good. Go to the local 7-11, Wawa, or whatever
the convenience store is, and you might get eight hour old sludge. You get
what you pay for. If all you're looking for is the caffeine, then any place
will do. If you're looking for the whole coffee drinking experience, or get
a caramel mocchiata, then you might want to go to Starbucks and pay the
extra cash. Or you might want to brew your own.

Fred

[William Lee]

Post by Fred Agnir

Post by William Lee
Dont you think marketing and image plays a biger role in sales than actual
quality?

Absolutely not. The guys who have buiilt the biggest reputation did so
through quality work that stood the test of time.
The word of mouth
advertisement was based on quality and performance and nothing else.

Really?

Post by Fred Agnir
Marketing? Where do you see marketing for custom cues? The cost of their
cues is due to economics. The price is what their particular cues can be
sold for based on the demand and how many they can make.

OK Fred, tell me the story of Schon cues.
How did they go from zero to a big back order of cues in such a short period
of time?
Do you know how they did it?
Dont take this as a slam on Schon cues as I think they are a good cue.
Other may not.

Thinks about this ...
A fellow could start a cue company called Bambozzle cues.
Market the hell out of it with magazine and player endorsements and take
hundreds of orders.
All with 50% down and a two year waiting list.
Two years down the road just contract the inlayed butts offshore like
Predator does and deliver the goods.
All you would ever need to make is good shafts.

Think that has ever been done?

Post by Fred Agnir
IMO, the coffee analogy wasn't great, but it was alright. People go to
Starbucks for several reasons. There is more to offer,and they do it well.
Their coffee is mostly very good. Go to the local 7-11, Wawa, or whatever
the convenience store is, and you might get eight hour old sludge. You get
what you pay for. If all you're looking for is the caffeine, then any place
will do. If you're looking for the whole coffee drinking experience, or get
a caramel mocchiata, then you might want to go to Starbucks and pay the
extra cash. Or you might want to brew your own.

I do brew my own and gring the beans myself.
Not because I am anal but becuse I want that fresh taste of Kona Coffee and
enjoy the control over the outcome.
However, I also like the taste of Foldgers instant Straight Up Latee.
Taste is taste.

Post by Fred Agnir
Fred

[John Barton]

Willee, everyone thinks they have the formula. In the case of Schon Cues it
was word of mouth long before they did any formal marketing.

Players would come down to Florida for the winter with their Schon and Joss
cues and the Florida players would hit with them and decide they wanted one.

Schon earned their reputation through making consistently good quality cues.
Even now you don't see very much, if any advertisement for their cues.

People have tried to create cue companies and market the hell out of them
with mixed success. Players/Lucasi comes to mind as a successful brand
created through advertising but even they had to hire a well known cuemaker
to teach their factory "how" to produce consistently good cues in order to
live up to their advertised quality.

As far as custom or semi-custom cues goes It's George had arguably a stellar
pedigree with the involvement of Bill Schick and still they couldn't survive
in the cue market. Legacy Cues failed even though they had the production
facility, the experience and the marketing. The quality and design just
wasn't there.

The only formula that works is to have a quality product to build your
reputation on. Marketing and advertising are extensions of the promise your
brand makes to the consumer. If a product does not deliver on that promise
then the negative word of mouth will kill a brand within a short time. The
maxim is that a happy customer tells three people and an unhappy one tells
everyone. That's how reputations are built and sales are earned.

John

Post by William Lee

Post by Fred Agnir

Post by William Lee
Dont you think marketing and image plays a biger role in sales than

actual

Post by Fred Agnir

Post by William Lee
quality?

Absolutely not. The guys who have buiilt the biggest reputation did so
through quality work that stood the test of time.
The word of mouth
advertisement was based on quality and performance and nothing else.

Really?

Post by Fred Agnir
Marketing? Where do you see marketing for custom cues? The cost of their
cues is due to economics. The price is what their particular cues can be
sold for based on the demand and how many they can make.

OK Fred, tell me the story of Schon cues.
How did they go from zero to a big back order of cues in such a short period
of time?
Do you know how they did it?
Dont take this as a slam on Schon cues as I think they are a good cue.
Other may not.
Thinks about this ...
A fellow could start a cue company called Bambozzle cues.
Market the hell out of it with magazine and player endorsements and take
hundreds of orders.
All with 50% down and a two year waiting list.
Two years down the road just contract the inlayed butts offshore like
Predator does and deliver the goods.
All you would ever need to make is good shafts.
Think that has ever been done?

Post by Fred Agnir
IMO, the coffee analogy wasn't great, but it was alright. People go to
Starbucks for several reasons. There is more to offer,and they do it well.
Their coffee is mostly very good. Go to the local 7-11, Wawa, or whatever
the convenience store is, and you might get eight hour old sludge. You get
what you pay for. If all you're looking for is the caffeine, then any

place

Post by Fred Agnir
will do. If you're looking for the whole coffee drinking experience, or

get

Post by Fred Agnir
a caramel mocchiata, then you might want to go to Starbucks and pay the
extra cash. Or you might want to brew your own.

I do brew my own and gring the beans myself.
Not because I am anal but becuse I want that fresh taste of Kona Coffee and
enjoy the control over the outcome.
However, I also like the taste of Foldgers instant Straight Up Latee.
Taste is taste.

Post by Fred Agnir
Fred

[William Lee]

Post by John Barton
Willee, everyone thinks they have the formula. In the case of Schon Cues it
was word of mouth long before they did any formal marketing.
Players would come down to Florida for the winter with their Schon and Joss
cues and the Florida players would hit with them and decide they wanted one.
Schon earned their reputation through making consistently good quality cues.
Even now you don't see very much, if any advertisement for their cues.
People have tried to create cue companies and market the hell out of them
with mixed success. Players/Lucasi comes to mind as a successful brand
created through advertising but even they had to hire a well known cuemaker
to teach their factory "how" to produce consistently good cues in order to
live up to their advertised quality.
As far as custom or semi-custom cues goes It's George had arguably a stellar
pedigree with the involvement of Bill Schick and still they couldn't survive
in the cue market. Legacy Cues failed even though they had the production
facility, the experience and the marketing. The quality and design just
wasn't there.
The only formula that works is to have a quality product to build your
reputation on. Marketing and advertising are extensions of the promise your
brand makes to the consumer. If a product does not deliver on that promise
then the negative word of mouth will kill a brand within a short time.

The

Post by John Barton
maxim is that a happy customer tells three people and an unhappy one tells
everyone. That's how reputations are built and sales are earned.
John

Good reply, John.

Ya know I enjoy pushing buttons as well as the next asshole here, but in
every one of my posts I try to give someone something to think about. I
encourage open disuction and welcome differing opnions. It is those closed
minded 'know it al, and 'I am allways right' l people that I just cant
comprehend.

BTW .. when you get your next operation to the 'let's go' stage .. I want
in. <g>
You have the experience and the track record of a consistent winner.
If I ever wanted to mass produce cues I defiantly would want you somehow
involved in marketing them for me.
I have all the confidence in the world that whatever you undertake will be
very successful.
I have the upmost respect for what you have DONE as it speaks for itself and
I advise others to take a long look at John Barton's accomplishments in the
pool industry.

William Lee

[John Barton]

Post by Shawn Armstrong

Post by John Barton
Willee, everyone thinks they have the formula. In the case of Schon

Cues

Post by Shawn Armstrong
it

Post by John Barton
was word of mouth long before they did any formal marketing.
Players would come down to Florida for the winter with their Schon and

Joss

Post by John Barton
cues and the Florida players would hit with them and decide they wanted

one.

Post by John Barton
Schon earned their reputation through making consistently good quality

cues.

Post by John Barton
Even now you don't see very much, if any advertisement for their cues.
People have tried to create cue companies and market the hell out of them
with mixed success. Players/Lucasi comes to mind as a successful brand
created through advertising but even they had to hire a well known

cuemaker

Post by John Barton
to teach their factory "how" to produce consistently good cues in order to
live up to their advertised quality.
As far as custom or semi-custom cues goes It's George had arguably a

stellar

Post by John Barton
pedigree with the involvement of Bill Schick and still they couldn't

survive

Post by John Barton
in the cue market. Legacy Cues failed even though they had the production
facility, the experience and the marketing. The quality and design just
wasn't there.
The only formula that works is to have a quality product to build your
reputation on. Marketing and advertising are extensions of the promise

your

Post by John Barton
brand makes to the consumer. If a product does not deliver on that

promise

Post by John Barton
then the negative word of mouth will kill a brand within a short time.

The

Post by John Barton
maxim is that a happy customer tells three people and an unhappy one tells
everyone. That's how reputations are built and sales are earned.
John

Good reply, John.
Ya know I enjoy pushing buttons as well as the next asshole here, but in
every one of my posts I try to give someone something to think about. I
encourage open disuction and welcome differing opnions. It is those closed
minded 'know it al, and 'I am allways right' l people that I just cant
comprehend.
BTW .. when you get your next operation to the 'let's go' stage .. I want
in. <g>
You have the experience and the track record of a consistent winner.
If I ever wanted to mass produce cues I defiantly would want you somehow
involved in marketing them for me.
I have all the confidence in the world that whatever you undertake will be
very successful.
I have the upmost respect for what you have DONE as it speaks for itself and
I advise others to take a long look at John Barton's accomplishments in the
pool industry.
William Lee

Thank you for the compliments. I hope that I can make more of difference
the second time around.

John

[Dan White]

Post by John Barton
The only formula that works is to have a quality product to build your
reputation on. Marketing and advertising are extensions of the promise your
brand makes to the consumer. If a product does not deliver on that promise
then the negative word of mouth will kill a brand within a short time.

The

Post by John Barton
maxim is that a happy customer tells three people and an unhappy one tells
everyone. That's how reputations are built and sales are earned.

Agreed 100%. The figure I've heard as to whether a restaurant is good or
bad is that on average a person will tell 7 people if the food was bad. How
that number was arrived at I don't know. Maybe Kevin Bacon would know...

dwhite

[Roger Orsulak]

I'll find out. I know a guy, who's got a cousin, who...

Post by John Barton

Post by John Barton
The only formula that works is to have a quality product to build your
reputation on. Marketing and advertising are extensions of the promise

your

Post by John Barton
brand makes to the consumer. If a product does not deliver on that

promise

Post by John Barton
then the negative word of mouth will kill a brand within a short time.

The

Post by John Barton
maxim is that a happy customer tells three people and an unhappy one tells
everyone. That's how reputations are built and sales are earned.

Agreed 100%. The figure I've heard as to whether a restaurant is good or
bad is that on average a person will tell 7 people if the food was bad.

How

Post by John Barton
that number was arrived at I don't know. Maybe Kevin Bacon would know...
dwhite

[Roger Orsulak]

Post by John Barton
The only formula that works is to have a quality product to build your
reputation on. Marketing and advertising are extensions of the promise your
brand makes to the consumer. If a product does not deliver on that promise
then the negative word of mouth will kill a brand within a short time.

The

Post by John Barton
maxim is that a happy customer tells three people and an unhappy one tells
everyone. That's how reputations are built and sales are earned.
John

All very true. and to add my thoughts to the end of yours:


...and lost
Singer sewing machines.

Roger

[Shawn Armstrong]

Post by William Lee
Two years down the road just contract the inlayed butts offshore like
Predator does and deliver the goods.
All you would ever need to make is good shafts.

The butts are made in Canada as we speak. As far as I know, Falcon Cues is
still making the butts for Predator, and they're located in Mississauga,
Ontario, just 20 minutes outside Toronto. I've heard rumblings that they
might be going with Mezz in the future, but I haven't confirmed that yet.

The shafts are also made by Falcon as well. Falcon puts the shafts together
(spliced pieces and all) with the joint ring, finishes them, and sends them
to Predator. All Predator does with them is put the ferrule and tip on the
shaft. So, they don't even have to make good shafts either.

Post by William Lee
OK Fred, tell me the story of Schon cues.
How did they go from zero to a big back order of cues in such a short period
of time?
Do you know how they did it?
Dont take this as a slam on Schon cues as I think they are a good cue.
Other may not.

Is there something here that you know that we don't? As far as I know,
Schon hasn't been a "zero". The fact is they make one of the most solid
cues around. A lot of custom cuemakers have stolen ideas from the design of
a Schon cue to make their cues play better. I'd like to know of anyone that
thinks of a Schon as being anything besides a good cue. If you want to talk
marketing hype, look at yourself. There isn't one cuemaker on this NG
flogging his product except you. "Look at the cue I just made", or "a
friend came over and we built this cue - what do you think?", or "my cues
are the best value around", blah, blah, blah. That's free advertising.
Haven't seen Dan Janes, or Sherm, or Ted, or anyone else do it except you
(and maybe Yak). Schon and Predator (your examples) haven't built their
reputations with mass marketing or infomercials. They make solid cues.
Word of mouth amongst the pool world is better advertising than any
magazine. It's amazing that the best playing cues usually end up in the
hands of the better players. And, usually, people will get the impression
that, if they use a particular brand of cue, and they see other great
players using that brand of cue, then maybe it might be a quality brand.

Shawn Armstrong

[William Lee]

Post by Shawn Armstrong
Is there something here that you know that we don't?

There might be so lets listen.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
As far as I know,
Schon hasn't been a "zero".

They did not exist in 1950 so that must have started at zero at some point
in time.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
The fact is they make one of the most solid
cues around. A lot of custom cuemakers have stolen ideas from the design of
a Schon cue to make their cues play better. I'd like to know of anyone that
thinks of a Schon as being anything besides a good cue.

Never said anything different did I?

Post by Shawn Armstrong
If you want to talk marketing hype, look at yourself.

Well I have ... but I am trying to get other opinions by asking questions.
Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and offered to sell that
cue here on the NG.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
There isn't one cuemaker on this NG
flogging his product except you. "Look at the cue I just made", or "a
friend came over and we built this cue - what do you think?", or "my cues
are the best value around", blah, blah, blah. That's free advertising.

Is that what that is? Flogging?
Well I can tell you it sure isnt working very well.
Who have I sold a cue to because of it?
That is not my intent at all as it has been stated many times before and I
am sure you are aware of that.
I post the photos to show what I am doing and to get feedback on the
designs.
I am proud of what I do and want to share.
That is a bad thing?

Post by Shawn Armstrong
Haven't seen Dan Janes, or Sherm, or Ted, or anyone else do it except you
(and maybe Yak).

You have never seen other cuemakers post a photo of his cue here?
Never?
I havent seen then posting and taking whacks at me like you do either.
Why are you so intent at discrediting what I post as being bad or wrong?

Post by Shawn Armstrong
Schon and Predator (your examples) haven't built their
reputations with mass marketing or infomercials. They make solid cues.

I Never said they did not make solid cues.
I make solid cues ... so what ?

Post by Shawn Armstrong
Word of mouth amongst the pool world is better advertising than any
magazine.

I doubt that.

Post by Shawn Armstrong
It's amazing that the best playing cues usually end up in the
hands of the better players.

Yes .. amazing ... wonder what causes that?


William Lee

[Shawn Armstrong]

Post by William Lee
Well I have ... but I am trying to get other opinions by asking questions.
Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and offered to sell that
cue here on the NG.
Well I have ... but I am trying to get other opinions by asking questions.
Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and offered to sell that
cue here on the NG.

From: "WilleeCue" <***@spam.stx.rr.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
Subject: A Cue is Born ...
Lines: 16
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:46:59 GMT
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16:46:59 CDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:46:59 CDT
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com


Just finished this simple rosewood Jump / Break cue.
13mm tip - 59" - 19.7 oz - four points in shaft.

Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...

This one will go on eBay for Buy It Now at $275.
unless a local grabs it first.

Willee
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue


Now, I know you're going to try to weasel out on a technicality, since you
haven't actually offered it for sale on the NG. But, you did ADVERTISE it
on the NG that you would be SELLING the cue on eBay for $275 BIN if a local
didn't buy it first. To me, you have ADVERTISED this cue for sale at the
price of $275 on this NEWSGROUP. All you've done is chosen eBay as your
forum to sell the cue. That's really no different than just putting the cue
up for sale on the NG.

This would be the same as Joe Van posting that he has a Szamboti on sale for
$5000 on www.classiccues.com. That would also be considered as not selling
on the NG, but I would consider it as blatant advertising.

Shawn Armstrong

[William Lee]

Post by Shawn Armstrong

Post by William Lee
Well I have ... but I am trying to get other opinions by asking questions.
Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and offered to sell that
cue here on the NG.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
Subject: A Cue is Born ...
Lines: 16
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:46:59 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.170.37.127
X-Trace: fe2.texas.rr.com 1083102419 24.170.37.127 (Tue, 27 Apr 2004
16:46:59 CDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:46:59 CDT
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com
Just finished this simple rosewood Jump / Break cue.
13mm tip - 59" - 19.7 oz - four points in shaft.
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE1.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE2.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE3.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE4.JPG
This one will go on eBay for Buy It Now at $275.
unless a local grabs it first.
Willee
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue
Now, I know you're going to try to weasel out on a technicality, since you
haven't actually offered it for sale on the NG. But, you did ADVERTISE it
on the NG that you would be SELLING the cue on eBay for $275 BIN if a local
didn't buy it first. To me, you have ADVERTISED this cue for sale at the
price of $275 on this NEWSGROUP. All you've done is chosen eBay as your
forum to sell the cue. That's really no different than just putting the cue
up for sale on the NG.
This would be the same as Joe Van posting that he has a Szamboti on sale for
$5000 on www.classiccues.com. That would also be considered as not selling
on the NG, but I would consider it as blatant advertising.
Shawn Armstrong

I have nothing to say, Shawn, except ...
In your eagerness to discredit anything I might say, you have said it all
for me.

Shawn sez> "Now, I know you're going to try to weasel out on a technicality,
since you
haven't actually offered it for sale on the NG".

What more could I possably add to that.


William Lee < ..... such a blatant asshole.

[Shawn Armstrong]

Post by William Lee
Well I have ... but I am trying to get other opinions by asking questions.
Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and offered to sell that
cue here on the NG.

From: "WilleeCue" <***@spam.stx.rr.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
Subject: A Cue is Born ...
Lines: 16
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
Message-ID: <nxAjc.30423$***@fe2.texas.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:46:59 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.170.37.127
X-Complaints-To: ***@rr.com
X-Trace: fe2.texas.rr.com 1083102419 24.170.37.127 (Tue, 27 Apr 2004
16:46:59 CDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:46:59 CDT
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com


Just finished this simple rosewood Jump / Break cue.
13mm tip - 59" - 19.7 oz - four points in shaft.

http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE1.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE2.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE3.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE4.JPG

This one will go on eBay for Buy It Now at $275.
unless a local grabs it first.

Willee
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue


Now, I know you're going to try to weasel out on a technicality, since you
haven't actually offered it for sale on the NG. But, you did ADVERTISE it
on the NG that you would be SELLING the cue on eBay for $275 BIN if a local
didn't buy it first. To me, you have ADVERTISED this cue for sale at the
price of $275 on this NEWSGROUP. All you've done is chosen eBay as your
forum to sell the cue. That's really no different than just putting the cue
up for sale on the NG.

This would be the same as Joe Van posting that he has a Szamboti on sale for
$5000 on www.classiccues.com. That would also be considered as not selling
on the NG, but I would consider it as blatant advertising.

Shawn Armstrong

[William Lee]

Post by Shawn Armstrong

Post by William Lee
Well I have ... but I am trying to get other opinions by asking questions.
Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and offered to sell that
cue here on the NG.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
Subject: A Cue is Born ...
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Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:46:59 GMT
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Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com
Just finished this simple rosewood Jump / Break cue.
13mm tip - 59" - 19.7 oz - four points in shaft.
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE1.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE2.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE3.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE4.JPG
This one will go on eBay for Buy It Now at $275.
unless a local grabs it first.
Willee
http://home.stx.rr.com/n5wrx
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue
Now, I know you're going to try to weasel out on a technicality, since you
haven't actually offered it for sale on the NG. But, you did ADVERTISE it
on the NG that you would be SELLING the cue on eBay for $275 BIN if a local
didn't buy it first. To me, you have ADVERTISED this cue for sale at the
price of $275 on this NEWSGROUP. All you've done is chosen eBay as your
forum to sell the cue. That's really no different than just putting the cue
up for sale on the NG.
This would be the same as Joe Van posting that he has a Szamboti on sale for
$5000 on www.classiccues.com. That would also be considered as not selling
on the NG, but I would consider it as blatant advertising.
Shawn Armstrong

Shawn sez > "Now, I know you're going to try to weasel out on a
technicality, since you
haven't actually offered it for sale on the NG".

you have said it all for me.

BTW ... you forgot the part about the photo or dont that count?
Willee Sez> "Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and offered to
sell that
cue here on the NG".

William Lee

[Shawn Armstrong]

Post by William Lee
BTW ... you forgot the part about the photo or dont that count?
Willee Sez> "Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and offered to
sell that
cue here on the NG".
William Lee

http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE1.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE2.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE3.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE4.JPG

At the time you posted this cue, these links worked. Not my problem if you
took them off your webpage. I took these directly from your post, so
obviously there WERE pictures at the time you posted the cue. Nice try,
though.

Shawn Armstrong

[William Lee]

Yep, I guess you caught me red handed.
Selling a cue on eBay and letting the people here know about it.
Getting all that "free advertisement" as you called it.
Shameful isn't it.

So just what was your point, Shawn.
That it is a bad thing to post a notice about an eBay auction on the NG?
Or that it is a shameful thing just to try to sell a cue in general?

William Lee

Post by Shawn Armstrong

Post by William Lee
BTW ... you forgot the part about the photo or dont that count?
Willee Sez> "Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and

offered

Post by Shawn Armstrong
to

Post by William Lee
sell that
cue here on the NG".
William Lee

http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE1.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE2.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE3.JPG
http://home.earthlink.net/~willeecue/ROSE4.JPG
At the time you posted this cue, these links worked. Not my problem if you
took them off your webpage. I took these directly from your post, so
obviously there WERE pictures at the time you posted the cue. Nice try,
though.
Shawn Armstrong

[Shawn Armstrong]

Post by William Lee

Post by William Lee
Willee Sez> "Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and

offered to sell that cue here on the NG".

Post by William Lee

Post by William Lee
William Lee

I showed you one post. Don't split hairs as to the wording, like you did
with Joe Van.

Post by William Lee
So just what was your point, Shawn.
That it is a bad thing to post a notice about an eBay auction on the NG?

My point was that you use this group to flog your product, plain and simple.
No one else does except you. The problem with you is every post of yours
has some agenda of yours behind it, whether it's to stir the pot, or to pimp
your product (that's not a spelling error - I do mean "pimp" and not "pump")
out to the newsgroup. If anyone expresses an opinion about a cue that
doesn't agree with yours, you go offside. You're impossible to have an
intelligent conversation with. IF you had no agendas, and could manage to
get out of "me" mode (everything revolves around you), you'd be much more
pleasureable to deal with.

Shawn Armstrong

[William Lee]

"Shawn Armstrong" <***@no.cogeco.ca> wrote

IF you had no agendas, and could manage to

Post by Shawn Armstrong
get out of "me" mode (everything revolves around you), you'd be much more
pleasureable to deal with.
Shawn Armstrong

Then I suggest you just stop dealing with me, Shawn, and spend some quality
time with your family.
Am I so importaint that you would steal time from them to sling mud at me?

The only time you come here and post is to harass me about some nit picking
bullshit that really dont mean squat.
Whinning and crying about me posting photos of my cues and trying to sell
them.
I asked you to show me one time I did that and the best you could come up
with was an ebay auction notice.
Let me quote what you said today:
"Now, I know you're going to try to weasel out on a technicality,
since you haven't actually offered it for sale on the NG".
See ..even you know that did not qualify or you would not have tried to play
it down.
Cant you find one post where I actually did try to sell my cues right here
on the NG?

I thought you said you had better things to do?

William Lee

[Ratchet]

Post by Shawn Armstrong

Post by William Lee

Post by William Lee
Willee Sez> "Show me just one post that I have posted a photo and

offered to sell that cue here on the NG".

Post by William Lee

Post by William Lee
William Lee

I showed you one post. Don't split hairs as to the wording, like you did
with Joe Van.

Post by William Lee
So just what was your point, Shawn.
That it is a bad thing to post a notice about an eBay auction on the NG?

My point was that you use this group to flog your product, plain and simple.
No one else does except you. The problem with you is every post of yours
has some agenda of yours behind it, whether it's to stir the pot, or to pimp
your product (that's not a spelling error - I do mean "pimp" and not "pump")
out to the newsgroup. If anyone expresses an opinion about a cue that
doesn't agree with yours, you go offside. You're impossible to have an
intelligent conversation with. IF you had no agendas, and could manage to
get out of "me" mode (everything revolves around you), you'd be much more
pleasureable to deal with.
Shawn Armstrong

Whats wrong with a NG regular offerring up their wares on the odd occassion ,
the world goes around on commerce and everyone has a right to feed their
families dont they ???

Post by Shawn Armstrong

Post by William Lee
Ratchet << The pitch is up ( running for cover )

[Shawn Armstrong]

Ratchet,

If he only put things up once in a while, that would be fine. I'm just sick
of him dragging this newgroup down with all of the dumb crap he slings. He
seems to know more than every cuemaker on the planet, and doesn't know when
to shut his mouth. I left the group for the past few months, but have
lurked. Just when I thought Willee was at his worst, he somehow managed to
dig deep and climb down the ladder a few more rungs. When I returned, John
Barton was making sense (I always liked John, except for the stupid stuff
with Lou and Jimbo) like his old self, JAM was playing nicer, but Willee is
just the same idiot that he was 4 months ago, and 4 years ago. All I have
to say is Willee is the first person to yell out "liar", but he stretches
the truth better than anyone out there.

Shawn Armstrong

Post by Ratchet
Whats wrong with a NG regular offerring up their wares on the odd occassion ,
the world goes around on commerce and everyone has a right to feed their
families dont they ???

Post by William Lee
Ratchet << The pitch is up ( running for cover )