APA 8 ball and 9 ball rating system

[Razorburn]

Has anyone come up with a program (Excel sheet) or something that i can
put my standings and shots into to get a feel for where i am in the
rating system. In 8 ball i have been a steady 6 for a while and would
like to see when i am getting close to a 7 (sounds like i want to
sandbag doesnt it) just the oposite. In my opinion it would make me
work harder to gain that rating of a 7. Thanks

[David Hakala]

Post by Razorburn
Has anyone come up with a program (Excel sheet) or something that i can
put my standings and shots into to get a feel for where i am in the
rating system. In 8 ball i have been a steady 6 for a while and would
like to see when i am getting close to a 7 (sounds like i want to
sandbag doesnt it) just the oposite. In my opinion it would make me
work harder to gain that rating of a 7. Thanks

And you want to be a 7 because you're tired of playing? :-)

You'll never find or make a simulation program that reflects reality. The
APA rating system is based on a rolling average of your most recent 10 (?)
matches. Factors includes games won/lost, innings per game, the ratings of
your opponents, how badly you beat them or vice versa, safeties called and
uncalled by both parties, and other stuff. The weightings given to each
factor are top secret, and then there's the subjective opinion or corruption
of the local league operator. I know a 6 in Mississippi who's been a 4 since
he moved there, and he's not happy about it.

If your object is to quantify your own skill level for purposes of giving
yourself feedback, I suggest that you come up with your own Excel formula
based upon whatever performance factors motivate you. The rating it yields
doesn't have to correspond to APA's 2-7 scale. It just has to move in a way
that reflects your performance.

[Ron Hudson]

Post by David Hakala
And you want to be a 7 because you're tired of playing? :-)
You'll never find or make a simulation program that reflects reality. The
APA rating system is based on a rolling average of your most recent 10 (?)
matches.

It's actually the best 10 of your last 20 matches.

Post by David Hakala
Factors includes games won/lost, innings per game, the ratings of
your opponents, how badly you beat them or vice versa, safeties called and
uncalled by both parties, and other stuff.

I don't think your opponent's skill is taken into consideration, only yours.

Post by David Hakala
The weightings given to each
factor are top secret, and then there's the subjective opinion or corruption
of the local league operator. I know a 6 in Mississippi who's been a 4 since
he moved there, and he's not happy about it.
If your object is to quantify your own skill level for purposes of giving
yourself feedback, I suggest that you come up with your own Excel formula
based upon whatever performance factors motivate you. The rating it yields
doesn't have to correspond to APA's 2-7 scale. It just has to move in a way
that reflects your performance.

[David Hakala]

"Ron Hudson"
It's actually the best 10 of your last 20 matches.

You're right, Ron. I forgot that part of the voodoo.

I don't think your opponent's skill is taken into consideration, only yours.

Eh - debatable. Whether you win certainly counts, and the handicap is part
of that. :-)

But my point is that one can't and doesn't need to simulate the APA rating
system in order to measure one's personal performance. I really don't you
should try to improve in absolute terms by comparing oneself to others,
which is what the APA system is supposed to do. Devise a system that
accurately reflects your personal performance and track it.

Now, if you goal is to be "one of the best in the APA," then the APA system
gives a relevant approximation.

[Ed Chauvin IV]

Post by Ron Hudson

Post by David Hakala
Factors includes games won/lost, innings per game, the ratings of
your opponents, how badly you beat them or vice versa, safeties called and
uncalled by both parties, and other stuff.

I don't think your opponent's skill is taken into consideration, only yours.

Only insofar as beating a more skilled opponent will more often result
in more innings than fewer.



Ed Chauvin IV

[8-Ball]

There were some posts on here, a few years ago I think, that detailed the
formula pretty well. You may want to do a Google search. but, it basically
boils down to your average innings to win each game of each match ... of
your best 10 of your last 20 matches.

As I remember, it's something like ... you'll have to average less then 2
innings per game, again from the best 10 of your last 20 matches, to move
to a "7".

[JohnA(Kent,WA)]

Post by 8-Ball
There were some posts on here, a few years ago I think, that detailed the
formula pretty well. You may want to do a Google search.

I wouldn't bother searching for the previous posts. They have been removed
from the archives. I made a comment in one of the threads and because I left
the quoted text, I received an email from Google that APA corporate lawyers
had contacted them and claimed the postings contained proprietary
information and if they aren't removed, Google could expect to be sued.
Therefore Google removed the postings in question.

[Bob Jewett]

I wouldn't bother searching for the previous posts. They have
been removed from the archives. ...

Well, you might try searching for the phrase:

Subtract the defensive shots

on Google's advanced Usenet search page. Of course, that info
might be out of date.

[Dave Henrie]

I highly doubt that you will ever come up with an accurate measuring system,
nor get a useful answer from anyone in the APA. The league operators have
the ability to change a persons ranking at a whim, and I have seen them do
so in local tournaments causing some teams to be unable to compete due to no
longer being able to "play their numbers" with the 23 rule. I have also seen
a woman, who could shoot well, be rated an accurate three, but when the team
captain complained that she never won during league play, he dropped her to
a two, at a whim. I am sure she will shoot like a three in the next
tournament, but be rated the two "given her".

I also wonder why, in the tri county area near philadelphia there are no 9
ball players ranked a "9" under the league APA rep Mike Boyle. But yet in
his other non-local division (mine) we have two 9 rated players.( in a litle
town of 10k people). DO we have that much talent here in our little burg,
no.. it is the opposite. Since we have far less talent, and play each
other.. the rankings are based on our competition, which is fine if we
continue to play other players in our division. But, if we should move on to
city tournaments ot god-forbid Vegas, we would get crushed because a 6
ranking is two or three times stronger from the large city, versus our 6
ranking in this little town. Example being is I am a six from a small town
who has never ran a 9 ball rack, versus a six from philly that ran 3 racks
in my one match against him.

So, no you will never get a system for your home tracking, it is far too
twisted a system, but it is the only game in this / thar town

Dave

Post by Razorburn
Has anyone come up with a program (Excel sheet) or something that i can
put my standings and shots into to get a feel for where i am in the
rating system. In 8 ball i have been a steady 6 for a while and would
like to see when i am getting close to a 7 (sounds like i want to
sandbag doesnt it) just the oposite. In my opinion it would make me
work harder to gain that rating of a 7. Thanks

[Gary Ives]

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:49:00 -0500, "Dave Henrie"

Post by Dave Henrie
I highly doubt that you will ever come up with an accurate measuring system,
nor get a useful answer from anyone in the APA. The league operators have
the ability to change a persons ranking at a whim, and I have seen them do
so in local tournaments causing some teams to be unable to compete due to no
longer being able to "play their numbers" with the 23 rule. I have also seen
a woman, who could shoot well, be rated an accurate three, but when the team
captain complained that she never won during league play, he dropped her to
a two, at a whim. I am sure she will shoot like a three in the next
tournament, but be rated the two "given her".

Well said. I've seen this kind of thing myself and will probably
never play in APA, one of many reasons. 'Course, I can't run three
balls anyhoo;)

Gary